Blessing&Lifeisbeautiful
07-25 08:38 AM
OLDMONK - sam_i02 - BLIB
Here is my $.02 (or maybe 200 cents)
I am here since 2001 and my family joined me in 2002. I came here at a fairly grown up age and the reason for coming here is mainly for a better life for my family. I don't make enough money to be able to send and invest in India. In fact I was sent money (more than $10K) a few times from back home.
But I do make enough money here to be able to live in a good house and have a couple of cars. In India I couldn't have dreamed of a second car (I did have a car in India) and it would have been impossible for my kids to have a car when they are 16. I know for sure I have secured the future of my kids better here in the US than what it could have been for them in India. We are educated people and we keep reading about the successes of the Ambani Borthers, Rahul Gandhi and others. Our family with average IQs and wealth can only read the news but can never have a chance to have a go and succeed like those BIG WIGS in India. Here in the US, we definitely have a chance, to become at least a millionaire before we retire. As for my kids, they could be rich at a much younger age.
My PD is Oct. 2003 EB2 India (filed everything in June 2007) and I have sustained the wait for 4 years and I am willing to take on the stress for may be one more year for my family by which time we all should have our GCs. Moving to Canada? - I would rather start my own consulting company in Canada and go there once in a while (preferably in the summer) to enjoy the weather and to take care of my business.
Sincerely - IE
You are right. A lot of us came here for a better life. And yes it is a better life. I think Canada is a good option, but it is a lot harder to uproot and move, when you are sooo settled in the US.
Thanks for sharing your story.
Here is my $.02 (or maybe 200 cents)
I am here since 2001 and my family joined me in 2002. I came here at a fairly grown up age and the reason for coming here is mainly for a better life for my family. I don't make enough money to be able to send and invest in India. In fact I was sent money (more than $10K) a few times from back home.
But I do make enough money here to be able to live in a good house and have a couple of cars. In India I couldn't have dreamed of a second car (I did have a car in India) and it would have been impossible for my kids to have a car when they are 16. I know for sure I have secured the future of my kids better here in the US than what it could have been for them in India. We are educated people and we keep reading about the successes of the Ambani Borthers, Rahul Gandhi and others. Our family with average IQs and wealth can only read the news but can never have a chance to have a go and succeed like those BIG WIGS in India. Here in the US, we definitely have a chance, to become at least a millionaire before we retire. As for my kids, they could be rich at a much younger age.
My PD is Oct. 2003 EB2 India (filed everything in June 2007) and I have sustained the wait for 4 years and I am willing to take on the stress for may be one more year for my family by which time we all should have our GCs. Moving to Canada? - I would rather start my own consulting company in Canada and go there once in a while (preferably in the summer) to enjoy the weather and to take care of my business.
Sincerely - IE
You are right. A lot of us came here for a better life. And yes it is a better life. I think Canada is a good option, but it is a lot harder to uproot and move, when you are sooo settled in the US.
Thanks for sharing your story.
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amoljak
07-26 11:09 PM
I was approached by a Quixtar "Business Owner" in Ikea. I had fallen in their trap once before and had to listen to the whole business plan and how I was wasting my life working for someone else etc. etc.
He used his signature opening line: Are you Indian?
I replied: NO
Poor fellow didn't know what to say next.
He used his signature opening line: Are you Indian?
I replied: NO
Poor fellow didn't know what to say next.
McLuvin
06-17 01:54 PM
Dude, i agree with you... All about dumping/low cost labor/yours BITS/MSFT talent...
Get my point right... you are getting old and you are scared... you are feeling insecure... you DUMPED 100k :) for YOUR MBA program.... dont shit bricks... dont worry.... when we who need to feel insecure are doing ok.... I think solely considering your status.... you should go have a ball... oh i forgot your MSFT/BITS stuff...
Karthik S
I am simply stumped at the level of comprehension of the folks right here. Let me summarize my views as points and hopefully I will get through to you guys
1. My mention of BITS was not to prove that I was the best and the brightest. It was to prove that my education was NOT subsidized by the govt of India directly or indirectly. Remember passing out of any university doesnt confer the title of the best and the brightest. Unseenguy - If you have kicked the ass of IITians, bitsians etc then consider yourselves genuine. Why this unnecessary trip down "Not confident about myself lane" ?
2. My mention of MSFT was again not to prove that I am part of the best and rightest. It was to prove that I came here not with the value proposition of low costs but with the value proposition of hardwork and some talent. I did not compromise on my pay or did replace any native employee. Oh BTW I left MSFT in 2000
3. My mention of the 3 layoffs and my journey was to inform you guys that whatever is happening now is similar to whatever happened in 2001. I wanted to calm down the nerves of the genuine people. Without reading and comprehending the posts, I get responses like that I was an illegal. Remember I was taken back in for 2 days, 485/AP/EAD applied and my jobless days were with my EAD in hand.
4. One of the reasons, I am against outsourcing companies is that they dump low wage workers. If you guys are aware, every country, including India and US, has anti dumping laws to protect local industries. I am not against offshoring or outsourcing but I am against dumping. Some posters have questioned how I would be affected by all this if I were the among the best and the brightest ? Valid question to a good extent. If you realize that as you age your speed and dexterity at which one adopts newer skills start waning. How long do you think that upgrading skills in a single industry would be possible when you are going to be constantly competing with walmart style options ?
For now I have chosen to enroll myself in an MBA program and I am hoping that my skills wouldn't be diluted. Think about going to school at age 35 with the responsibility of family and kid. This is my last ditch effort in upgrading my skills because it involves a substantial ownpayment. I am not sure about you guys but a 100K investment for school now is huge for me. The big question is, I am able to pull up my last bit of energy to upgrade now but will it be possible 5 years now if these outsourcing companies starting dumping low cost MBAs ? This is what I meant by my quality of life being impacted. If you guys think that you wouldnt go through the same scenario, then you need some serious retrospection.
One last thing I would like to point out the inherent contradiction that the current prospective immigrants are facing today. GC is a process that is there to fill in the lack of skills in the US. However with unemployment running close to 10%, the question arises as to whether to train local populace for these skills. There are just 2 exits out of this contradiction
1. Bring in low cost labor to fulfill this shortage and avoid local training costs
2. Expand on a new idea. Green seems to be the buzzword today.
In my opinion, option 1 is lose lose situation for all including the actual foreign employee who provides the services at a low cost. It is the outsourcing company for sure and probably the hiring company that may benefit. The society as a whole loses. Option 2 is an organic option but is laen with the dangers of delays in take off and boom and bust cycles. This is exactly the reason why I suggested that we cut these outsourcing cs from dumping bodies here. I hope I have clarified my opinions lucidly and hopefully look forward to a mature discussion as opposed to name calling, affronts etc.
Get my point right... you are getting old and you are scared... you are feeling insecure... you DUMPED 100k :) for YOUR MBA program.... dont shit bricks... dont worry.... when we who need to feel insecure are doing ok.... I think solely considering your status.... you should go have a ball... oh i forgot your MSFT/BITS stuff...
Karthik S
I am simply stumped at the level of comprehension of the folks right here. Let me summarize my views as points and hopefully I will get through to you guys
1. My mention of BITS was not to prove that I was the best and the brightest. It was to prove that my education was NOT subsidized by the govt of India directly or indirectly. Remember passing out of any university doesnt confer the title of the best and the brightest. Unseenguy - If you have kicked the ass of IITians, bitsians etc then consider yourselves genuine. Why this unnecessary trip down "Not confident about myself lane" ?
2. My mention of MSFT was again not to prove that I am part of the best and rightest. It was to prove that I came here not with the value proposition of low costs but with the value proposition of hardwork and some talent. I did not compromise on my pay or did replace any native employee. Oh BTW I left MSFT in 2000
3. My mention of the 3 layoffs and my journey was to inform you guys that whatever is happening now is similar to whatever happened in 2001. I wanted to calm down the nerves of the genuine people. Without reading and comprehending the posts, I get responses like that I was an illegal. Remember I was taken back in for 2 days, 485/AP/EAD applied and my jobless days were with my EAD in hand.
4. One of the reasons, I am against outsourcing companies is that they dump low wage workers. If you guys are aware, every country, including India and US, has anti dumping laws to protect local industries. I am not against offshoring or outsourcing but I am against dumping. Some posters have questioned how I would be affected by all this if I were the among the best and the brightest ? Valid question to a good extent. If you realize that as you age your speed and dexterity at which one adopts newer skills start waning. How long do you think that upgrading skills in a single industry would be possible when you are going to be constantly competing with walmart style options ?
For now I have chosen to enroll myself in an MBA program and I am hoping that my skills wouldn't be diluted. Think about going to school at age 35 with the responsibility of family and kid. This is my last ditch effort in upgrading my skills because it involves a substantial ownpayment. I am not sure about you guys but a 100K investment for school now is huge for me. The big question is, I am able to pull up my last bit of energy to upgrade now but will it be possible 5 years now if these outsourcing companies starting dumping low cost MBAs ? This is what I meant by my quality of life being impacted. If you guys think that you wouldnt go through the same scenario, then you need some serious retrospection.
One last thing I would like to point out the inherent contradiction that the current prospective immigrants are facing today. GC is a process that is there to fill in the lack of skills in the US. However with unemployment running close to 10%, the question arises as to whether to train local populace for these skills. There are just 2 exits out of this contradiction
1. Bring in low cost labor to fulfill this shortage and avoid local training costs
2. Expand on a new idea. Green seems to be the buzzword today.
In my opinion, option 1 is lose lose situation for all including the actual foreign employee who provides the services at a low cost. It is the outsourcing company for sure and probably the hiring company that may benefit. The society as a whole loses. Option 2 is an organic option but is laen with the dangers of delays in take off and boom and bust cycles. This is exactly the reason why I suggested that we cut these outsourcing cs from dumping bodies here. I hope I have clarified my opinions lucidly and hopefully look forward to a mature discussion as opposed to name calling, affronts etc.
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JazzByTheBay
12-13 04:34 PM
If someone from country X, Y, or Z comes in on that same quota, that's OK - but we can't accept folks from countries A, B and C??
jazz
Let's assume that it can not be fought within US Constitutional framework then do we have a choice to bring this to international court level? Can US prove that keeping per country immigration quota for EB categories is not a discrimination but a policy to protect its citizens or per say to protect its industry/economy?
jazz
Let's assume that it can not be fought within US Constitutional framework then do we have a choice to bring this to international court level? Can US prove that keeping per country immigration quota for EB categories is not a discrimination but a policy to protect its citizens or per say to protect its industry/economy?
more...
satyasaich
01-13 04:04 PM
Nuke buddy are you off your rocker. These guys will kill you for even suggesting it. I myselft have taken all kinds of abuses from everyone here and i myself had the presence of mind to not go there. Leave it . That law is the law. Of course it did hurt EB3 but what it did is take the unfair benefit that EB3 was getting because of wrong interpetation of the law. No all that is water under the bridge.
Once upon a time in this country ( & based on situation 'at' that time), laws were made and hence some classifications such as EB1/2/3 etc;
I'm not here to waste any one's time( including mine) but why shouldn't we ( i mean IV which includes "all" members) try for following
1. Automatic consideration of any EB3 after 5 years of filing date of LC ( conditions being verifiable and clean work history ) to EB2 such as a person in the queue shall be able to apply him/her self by providing facts such as 5 years of W2s, say for example.
2. Any spill over from ROW must "first" be made available to "highly retrogressed EB category" regardless of the country. Simple rule: make the spill over available to "that" EB category where there is most retrogession.
Meaning not the vertical spill as it is happening now
AND
3. Remove the count of dependent family members against number of visas granted per year in any of EB category
Once upon a time in this country ( & based on situation 'at' that time), laws were made and hence some classifications such as EB1/2/3 etc;
I'm not here to waste any one's time( including mine) but why shouldn't we ( i mean IV which includes "all" members) try for following
1. Automatic consideration of any EB3 after 5 years of filing date of LC ( conditions being verifiable and clean work history ) to EB2 such as a person in the queue shall be able to apply him/her self by providing facts such as 5 years of W2s, say for example.
2. Any spill over from ROW must "first" be made available to "highly retrogressed EB category" regardless of the country. Simple rule: make the spill over available to "that" EB category where there is most retrogession.
Meaning not the vertical spill as it is happening now
AND
3. Remove the count of dependent family members against number of visas granted per year in any of EB category
andy garcia
02-15 12:27 PM
when did you check?
I checked 10 min. ago it looks COOL;)
I checked 10 min. ago it looks COOL;)
more...
Widget
02-18 03:35 PM
I fully agree with you. the point is that we are not powerful (EB peopel) in order to force the gov to do something about it. The farmers, illegals, helathcare EB peopel are in much better situation than us (regular EB peopel).
My children are doing very well in schools and they are much better than any average student in the class and I can not take them back to my home country after they have achived good grades. My wife ca not work because she is an H4 holder, I can not take buy a house because I am not sure if I am going to have a job for more than 2 years.
it is a very difficult situation and I have to think about a back up plan after beeing in this situation since 2003. By the way, I an ROW H1 holder.
I have and approved I-140 (PD 01/2004) and I can not file for I-485.
I can only give examples from personal life. My personal examples lead me to believe that a lot of people, though aware of retrogression, are unaware of what it really means.
Six months ago, I thought that there was nobody opposing EB-based visa numbers. And I was pretty certain that my greencard would be handed to me in a few years.
Then I learnt about IV. And I learnt about the problems.
Then I tried to tell my friends about it at work. And the first reactions were 'Is the situation really that bad'?
So, there is definitely a huge group of people who don't know what retrogression really means, and how screwed they really are.
But again, these are personal examples. Maybe yours (people knowing about retrogression, and still not bothering about contributing/participating in IV) might have led you to a different conclusion.
My children are doing very well in schools and they are much better than any average student in the class and I can not take them back to my home country after they have achived good grades. My wife ca not work because she is an H4 holder, I can not take buy a house because I am not sure if I am going to have a job for more than 2 years.
it is a very difficult situation and I have to think about a back up plan after beeing in this situation since 2003. By the way, I an ROW H1 holder.
I have and approved I-140 (PD 01/2004) and I can not file for I-485.
I can only give examples from personal life. My personal examples lead me to believe that a lot of people, though aware of retrogression, are unaware of what it really means.
Six months ago, I thought that there was nobody opposing EB-based visa numbers. And I was pretty certain that my greencard would be handed to me in a few years.
Then I learnt about IV. And I learnt about the problems.
Then I tried to tell my friends about it at work. And the first reactions were 'Is the situation really that bad'?
So, there is definitely a huge group of people who don't know what retrogression really means, and how screwed they really are.
But again, these are personal examples. Maybe yours (people knowing about retrogression, and still not bothering about contributing/participating in IV) might have led you to a different conclusion.
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akred
02-13 12:36 PM
I think the US government wanted it this way.
Yes. Racial exclusion and preference for European immigration has a long history in US immigration law.
http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/immigr09.htm
Yes. Racial exclusion and preference for European immigration has a long history in US immigration law.
http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/immigr09.htm
more...
immi_seeker
09-15 02:39 PM
Here are my Estimate of pending EB2 India case for give years
<=2004 2000
2005 10000
2006 13000
2007(july) 5000
==============
Total 30000
==============
This number is very close to Ron Gocthers number prediction a few months back (minus sept approvals).
Collaboration on visa quota data/analysis - Page 6 - Immigration Information Discussion Forum (http://www.immigration-information.com/forums/general-immigration-questions/8419-collaboration-on-visa-quota-data-analysis-6.html)
Pending as of 15 July 2009 145000
EB2 50000
EB3 94000
EB2India (2.4/3.5 EB2) 35714
We can use the LCA number and come close these numbers as well
2005
EB2 India LCA for 2005 = RIR (3000) + PERM (60% of 7290) ~ 7400
Assuming 20% abandon applicant we get = 5900
1.2 dependent per applicant give ~ 13000 I-485 applicantions
Assuming 10% approved in 2008 and 10% rejected/abandon I-485 and 5% cross-charageability we get => pending 10000 pending I-485 application for 2005
2006
India PERM applications = 18000
EB2 India PERM applications (60%) = 10800
Assuming 20% abandon applicant we get = 8640
1.2 dependent per applicant give ~ 19000 I-485 applicantions
Assuming 10% approved in 2008 and 10% rejected/abandon I-485 and 10% cross-charageability we get => pending 13000 pending I-485 application for 2006
So if we see spillover of more than 30K the date will move beyond July 2007.
Considering the slow economy that spill over is reasonable.
<=2004 2000
2005 10000
2006 13000
2007(july) 5000
==============
Total 30000
==============
This number is very close to Ron Gocthers number prediction a few months back (minus sept approvals).
Collaboration on visa quota data/analysis - Page 6 - Immigration Information Discussion Forum (http://www.immigration-information.com/forums/general-immigration-questions/8419-collaboration-on-visa-quota-data-analysis-6.html)
Pending as of 15 July 2009 145000
EB2 50000
EB3 94000
EB2India (2.4/3.5 EB2) 35714
We can use the LCA number and come close these numbers as well
2005
EB2 India LCA for 2005 = RIR (3000) + PERM (60% of 7290) ~ 7400
Assuming 20% abandon applicant we get = 5900
1.2 dependent per applicant give ~ 13000 I-485 applicantions
Assuming 10% approved in 2008 and 10% rejected/abandon I-485 and 5% cross-charageability we get => pending 10000 pending I-485 application for 2005
2006
India PERM applications = 18000
EB2 India PERM applications (60%) = 10800
Assuming 20% abandon applicant we get = 8640
1.2 dependent per applicant give ~ 19000 I-485 applicantions
Assuming 10% approved in 2008 and 10% rejected/abandon I-485 and 10% cross-charageability we get => pending 13000 pending I-485 application for 2006
So if we see spillover of more than 30K the date will move beyond July 2007.
Considering the slow economy that spill over is reasonable.
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vine93
01-14 01:03 PM
What I understood
If you are on H1 and is validity more than one year. Keep continuing. Once expiration is withing 6 month , start finding the direct vendor. Make sure you start the process early. So that even if it rejected you have time to jump to direct vendor. My two freinds got victims of this rule recently this week only .Their transfer was rejected for this reason , Now they got the offer from Direct vendor , H1 trasnfer is in process . EAD should be unaffected by this memo.
There is no doubt Small Desi co. given fair chance to all kinds of people from remote villages. Then again they took unfair advantages too. Its time to wrap up their business now.
Situation is alarming indeed.
If you are on H1 and is validity more than one year. Keep continuing. Once expiration is withing 6 month , start finding the direct vendor. Make sure you start the process early. So that even if it rejected you have time to jump to direct vendor. My two freinds got victims of this rule recently this week only .Their transfer was rejected for this reason , Now they got the offer from Direct vendor , H1 trasnfer is in process . EAD should be unaffected by this memo.
There is no doubt Small Desi co. given fair chance to all kinds of people from remote villages. Then again they took unfair advantages too. Its time to wrap up their business now.
Situation is alarming indeed.
more...
katrina
02-01 02:34 PM
US news has covered a book by David Heenan -- "Flight Capital" that essentially deals with the fact that high powered immigrants are leaving this country -- for whatever reason -- and how its bad for America. BAD FOR AMERICA. forget about it being bad of GC aspirants. ITS BAD FOR AMERICA. And we have one of america's own high powered former CEO saying that
http://www.flight-capital.com/
This man has no vested interested in talking about this. Obviously he does not need a GC and he is not on H1. He makes our case. How anti-immigration congressional measure are hurting America as a nation as much as it hurts aspiring immigrants.
This is an independent non-partisan source who can be quoted in our cause.
http://www.greatandhra.com/business/greencard_usa.html
and there is another good article with the same topic.
Check out this article in the Wall Street Journal - by Gary Becker, a Nobel Price Winner..alas this administration in immune to such logic
Give Us Your Skilled Masses
By GARY S. BECKER
November 30, 2005; Page A18
With border security and proposals for a guest-worker program back on the front page, it is vital that the U.S. -- in its effort to cope with undocumented workers -- does not overlook legal immigration. The number of people allowed in is far too small, posing a significant problem for the economy in the years ahead. Only 140,000 green cards are issued annually, with the result that scientists, engineers and other highly skilled workers often must wait years before receiving the ticket allowing them to stay permanently in the U.S.
An alternate route for highly skilled professionals -- especially information technology workers -- has been temporary H-1B visas, good for specific jobs for three years with the possibility of one renewal. But Congress foolishly cut the annual quota of H-1B visas in 2003 from almost 200,000 to well under 100,000. The small quota of 65,000 for the current fiscal year that began on Oct. 1 is already exhausted!
This is mistaken policy. The right approach would be to greatly increase the number of entry permits to highly skilled professionals and eliminate the H-1B program, so that all such visas became permanent. Skilled immigrants such as engineers and scientists are in fields not attracting many Americans, and they work in IT industries, such as computers and biotech, which have become the backbone of the economy. Many of the entrepreneurs and higher-level employees in Silicon Valley were born overseas. These immigrants create jobs and opportunities for native-born Americans of all types and levels of skills.
So it seems like a win-win situation. Permanent rather than temporary admissions of the H-1B type have many advantages. Foreign professionals would make a greater commitment to becoming part of American culture and to eventually becoming citizens, rather than forming separate enclaves in the expectation they are here only temporarily. They would also be more concerned with advancing in the American economy and less likely to abscond with the intellectual property of American companies -- property that could help them advance in their countries of origin.
Basically, I am proposing that H-1B visas be folded into a much larger, employment-based green card program with the emphasis on skilled workers. The annual quota should be multiplied many times beyond present limits, and there should be no upper bound on the numbers from any single country. Such upper bounds place large countries like India and China, with many highly qualified professionals, at a considerable and unfair disadvantage -- at no gain to the U.S.
* * *
To be sure, the annual admission of a million or more highly skilled workers such as engineers and scientists would lower the earnings of the American workers they compete against. The opposition from competing American workers is probably the main reason for the sharp restrictions on the number of immigrant workers admitted today. That opposition is understandable, but does not make it good for the country as a whole.
Doesn't the U.S. clearly benefit if, for example, India's government spends a lot on the highly esteemed Indian Institutes of Technology to train scientists and engineers who leave to work in America? It certainly appears that way to the sending countries, many of which protest against this emigration by calling it a "brain drain."
Yet the migration of workers, like free trade in goods, is not a zero sum game, but one that usually benefits the sending and the receiving country. Even if many immigrants do not return home to the nations that trained them, they send back remittances that are often sizeable; and some do return to start businesses.
Experience shows that countries providing a good economic and political environment can attract back many of the skilled men and women who have previously left. Whether they return or not, they gain knowledge about modern technologies that becomes more easily incorporated into the production of their native countries.
Experience also shows that if America does not accept greatly increased numbers of highly skilled professionals, they might go elsewhere: Canada and Australia, to take two examples, are actively recruiting IT professionals.
Since earnings are much higher in the U.S., many skilled immigrants would prefer to come here. But if they cannot, they may compete against us through outsourcing and similar forms of international trade in services. The U.S. would be much better off by having such skilled workers become residents and citizens -- thus contributing to our productivity, culture, tax revenues and education rather than to the productivity and tax revenues of other countries.
* * *
I do, however, advocate that we be careful about admitting students and skilled workers from countries that have produced many terrorists, such as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. My attitude may be dismissed as religious "profiling," but intelligent and fact-based profiling is essential in the war against terror. And terrorists come from a relatively small number of countries and backgrounds, unfortunately mainly of the Islamic faith. But the legitimate concern about admitting terrorists should not be allowed, as it is now doing, to deny or discourage the admission of skilled immigrants who pose little terrorist threat.
Nothing in my discussion should be interpreted as arguing against the admission of unskilled immigrants. Many of these individuals also turn out to be ambitious and hard-working and make fine contributions to American life. But if the number to be admitted is subject to political and other limits, there is a strong case for giving preference to skilled immigrants for the reasons I have indicated.
Other countries, too, should liberalize their policies toward the immigration of skilled workers. I particularly think of Japan and Germany, both countries that have rapidly aging, and soon to be declining, populations that are not sympathetic (especially Japan) to absorbing many immigrants. These are decisions they have to make. But America still has a major advantage in attracting skilled workers, because this is the preferred destination of the vast majority of them. So why not take advantage of their preference to come here, rather than force them to look elsewhere?
Mr. Becker, the 1992 Nobel laureate in economics, is University Professor of Economics and Sociology at the University of Chicago and the Rose-Marie and Jack R. Anderson Senior Fellow at Stanford's Hoover Institution.
http://www.flight-capital.com/
This man has no vested interested in talking about this. Obviously he does not need a GC and he is not on H1. He makes our case. How anti-immigration congressional measure are hurting America as a nation as much as it hurts aspiring immigrants.
This is an independent non-partisan source who can be quoted in our cause.
http://www.greatandhra.com/business/greencard_usa.html
and there is another good article with the same topic.
Check out this article in the Wall Street Journal - by Gary Becker, a Nobel Price Winner..alas this administration in immune to such logic
Give Us Your Skilled Masses
By GARY S. BECKER
November 30, 2005; Page A18
With border security and proposals for a guest-worker program back on the front page, it is vital that the U.S. -- in its effort to cope with undocumented workers -- does not overlook legal immigration. The number of people allowed in is far too small, posing a significant problem for the economy in the years ahead. Only 140,000 green cards are issued annually, with the result that scientists, engineers and other highly skilled workers often must wait years before receiving the ticket allowing them to stay permanently in the U.S.
An alternate route for highly skilled professionals -- especially information technology workers -- has been temporary H-1B visas, good for specific jobs for three years with the possibility of one renewal. But Congress foolishly cut the annual quota of H-1B visas in 2003 from almost 200,000 to well under 100,000. The small quota of 65,000 for the current fiscal year that began on Oct. 1 is already exhausted!
This is mistaken policy. The right approach would be to greatly increase the number of entry permits to highly skilled professionals and eliminate the H-1B program, so that all such visas became permanent. Skilled immigrants such as engineers and scientists are in fields not attracting many Americans, and they work in IT industries, such as computers and biotech, which have become the backbone of the economy. Many of the entrepreneurs and higher-level employees in Silicon Valley were born overseas. These immigrants create jobs and opportunities for native-born Americans of all types and levels of skills.
So it seems like a win-win situation. Permanent rather than temporary admissions of the H-1B type have many advantages. Foreign professionals would make a greater commitment to becoming part of American culture and to eventually becoming citizens, rather than forming separate enclaves in the expectation they are here only temporarily. They would also be more concerned with advancing in the American economy and less likely to abscond with the intellectual property of American companies -- property that could help them advance in their countries of origin.
Basically, I am proposing that H-1B visas be folded into a much larger, employment-based green card program with the emphasis on skilled workers. The annual quota should be multiplied many times beyond present limits, and there should be no upper bound on the numbers from any single country. Such upper bounds place large countries like India and China, with many highly qualified professionals, at a considerable and unfair disadvantage -- at no gain to the U.S.
* * *
To be sure, the annual admission of a million or more highly skilled workers such as engineers and scientists would lower the earnings of the American workers they compete against. The opposition from competing American workers is probably the main reason for the sharp restrictions on the number of immigrant workers admitted today. That opposition is understandable, but does not make it good for the country as a whole.
Doesn't the U.S. clearly benefit if, for example, India's government spends a lot on the highly esteemed Indian Institutes of Technology to train scientists and engineers who leave to work in America? It certainly appears that way to the sending countries, many of which protest against this emigration by calling it a "brain drain."
Yet the migration of workers, like free trade in goods, is not a zero sum game, but one that usually benefits the sending and the receiving country. Even if many immigrants do not return home to the nations that trained them, they send back remittances that are often sizeable; and some do return to start businesses.
Experience shows that countries providing a good economic and political environment can attract back many of the skilled men and women who have previously left. Whether they return or not, they gain knowledge about modern technologies that becomes more easily incorporated into the production of their native countries.
Experience also shows that if America does not accept greatly increased numbers of highly skilled professionals, they might go elsewhere: Canada and Australia, to take two examples, are actively recruiting IT professionals.
Since earnings are much higher in the U.S., many skilled immigrants would prefer to come here. But if they cannot, they may compete against us through outsourcing and similar forms of international trade in services. The U.S. would be much better off by having such skilled workers become residents and citizens -- thus contributing to our productivity, culture, tax revenues and education rather than to the productivity and tax revenues of other countries.
* * *
I do, however, advocate that we be careful about admitting students and skilled workers from countries that have produced many terrorists, such as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. My attitude may be dismissed as religious "profiling," but intelligent and fact-based profiling is essential in the war against terror. And terrorists come from a relatively small number of countries and backgrounds, unfortunately mainly of the Islamic faith. But the legitimate concern about admitting terrorists should not be allowed, as it is now doing, to deny or discourage the admission of skilled immigrants who pose little terrorist threat.
Nothing in my discussion should be interpreted as arguing against the admission of unskilled immigrants. Many of these individuals also turn out to be ambitious and hard-working and make fine contributions to American life. But if the number to be admitted is subject to political and other limits, there is a strong case for giving preference to skilled immigrants for the reasons I have indicated.
Other countries, too, should liberalize their policies toward the immigration of skilled workers. I particularly think of Japan and Germany, both countries that have rapidly aging, and soon to be declining, populations that are not sympathetic (especially Japan) to absorbing many immigrants. These are decisions they have to make. But America still has a major advantage in attracting skilled workers, because this is the preferred destination of the vast majority of them. So why not take advantage of their preference to come here, rather than force them to look elsewhere?
Mr. Becker, the 1992 Nobel laureate in economics, is University Professor of Economics and Sociology at the University of Chicago and the Rose-Marie and Jack R. Anderson Senior Fellow at Stanford's Hoover Institution.
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chetanjumani
12-14 12:45 PM
You don't have a case. Before laws are signed, lawmakers spend hours and hours or weeks arguing, debating and modying before it is passed by both Senators and congressmen.
If they change the current law to favor Indians, then it will be disciminatory to other nationals. Think the other way.
Personally, I don't see any discrimination in the existing law. It so happened that you came from Indian and the law only allows a certain percentage per country.
I am not sure if correcting a discrimation can be considered as discrimation againt group who were in an advantageous position before the correction is done.
I dont think any one wants any changes in favor of a particular nation, in fact they want it to be without favor to any particular nation and treat every one with equality.
I am not a constitutonal lawyer, but I believe if we pursue it, the per country limit may be removed.
How ever I am not sure if that will be very helpful to us now. Even if there is no per country limit, i think we will have to wait for years before the visas are made available.
I think, Immigrant voice should strive to make the system as fair and as efficient as possible, irrespective of in person who gains/looses from it.
Another very important thing here is not to get divided amongst ourself. If we do that we are not going to get much.
Take an honest view irrespective of your personal loss/gain.
We might even try to ponder how we could use this to get media/public focus on legal immigrant community, and its inefficiencies. Use this to forward all our causes.
We might want some people in PR to put this in media that perhaps there is something unconstitutional in the law, without going to the extent of filing a law case.
I would encourage every one to come up with imaginative ideas to achieve our overall goals of an efficient and fair system for legal immigrants.
Please help grow this idea
If they change the current law to favor Indians, then it will be disciminatory to other nationals. Think the other way.
Personally, I don't see any discrimination in the existing law. It so happened that you came from Indian and the law only allows a certain percentage per country.
I am not sure if correcting a discrimation can be considered as discrimation againt group who were in an advantageous position before the correction is done.
I dont think any one wants any changes in favor of a particular nation, in fact they want it to be without favor to any particular nation and treat every one with equality.
I am not a constitutonal lawyer, but I believe if we pursue it, the per country limit may be removed.
How ever I am not sure if that will be very helpful to us now. Even if there is no per country limit, i think we will have to wait for years before the visas are made available.
I think, Immigrant voice should strive to make the system as fair and as efficient as possible, irrespective of in person who gains/looses from it.
Another very important thing here is not to get divided amongst ourself. If we do that we are not going to get much.
Take an honest view irrespective of your personal loss/gain.
We might even try to ponder how we could use this to get media/public focus on legal immigrant community, and its inefficiencies. Use this to forward all our causes.
We might want some people in PR to put this in media that perhaps there is something unconstitutional in the law, without going to the extent of filing a law case.
I would encourage every one to come up with imaginative ideas to achieve our overall goals of an efficient and fair system for legal immigrants.
Please help grow this idea
more...
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alterego
10-07 04:40 PM
Sachug22,
I can pretty much guarantee you, if there is no quarterly spillover, your projections for without quarterly spillover are way too optimistic.
Your with quarterly spillover numbers are probably closer.
Of course with the USCIS, all rules, logic and common sense goes out the window. Poor State Dept has to read them and their productivity/intentions monthly, and of course we are on the receiving end of their non sense.
I can pretty much guarantee you, if there is no quarterly spillover, your projections for without quarterly spillover are way too optimistic.
Your with quarterly spillover numbers are probably closer.
Of course with the USCIS, all rules, logic and common sense goes out the window. Poor State Dept has to read them and their productivity/intentions monthly, and of course we are on the receiving end of their non sense.
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gc4me
03-30 09:09 AM
That would be great! :D
Widower Zardari will be marrying Kumari Mayawati just after election to unite subcontinent and bring peace to world.
Widower Zardari will be marrying Kumari Mayawati just after election to unite subcontinent and bring peace to world.
more...
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immiuser123
07-24 07:00 PM
a) Now you can pay for 80% of the list you mentioned using Internet and e-seva kendras
b) With Right For Information act you can drag people to thier knees if someone asks for bribe.
d) You can have to see the move Die Hard 4
e & f) what about the products here from China
g) Well it depends on the kids
Its not the question of economy alone. When deciding to go back. Its a question about convenience.
a) I don't want to stand in line to pay my Electric/Telephone/House Tax/Income Tax/Train Ticket/Air Ticket/Bus Ticket/Children Admission-donations/Petrol Line/LP Gas Line/Restaurant Line/Chola Bhatura Line/Samosa Line/RTO Office line/Registration line/License Line/Stock Buy line/Stock Sell Line/Bank Deposit Line/Bank Draft Line/Fixed Deposit Line/Kisaan Vikas Patra Line/Registered/Speed post Line/Blue Dart Line/Company registration line/College admission line/College fee line/University degree line/Interview Line/Booking a Car line/Beer Whisky Line/Canteen Line.
Half the country stands in line, the other half manages the line. Neither has any civic sense.
b) I don't want to bribe babus who manage above lines to get ahead in line.
d) I don't want power failures/cooler failures/ac failures/broken roads/or other catastrophic system failures.
e) I dont want fake or mixed eating oil / flour / milk / cheese / butter / peppers / lentils / rice
f) I don't want dangerous chemical fertilizers in my produce (slow killers - massive kidney failure rate in India for past 10 years)
g) I don't want to teach my children dishonesty and tricks of survival/street smartness (in ref to corruption in India) which don't add any value to their personality.
h) The only reason I would wanna go back is for my immediate family and friends. Thats the only thing I miss when it comes to India.
I wouldn't go back and I believe even MK Gandhi himself would'nt leave from Africa for India in todays times.
Also Its the enemy within (corruption) which can cause great harm and we have that kind of enemy now. You can never ever change the attitudes which people carry in India without another revolution.
I am sure I can come up with a huge list of positives too, They will sound very good and will give me a great feeling of fake National Pride.
Now go ahead and kill me for saying all the above.!!
b) With Right For Information act you can drag people to thier knees if someone asks for bribe.
d) You can have to see the move Die Hard 4
e & f) what about the products here from China
g) Well it depends on the kids
Its not the question of economy alone. When deciding to go back. Its a question about convenience.
a) I don't want to stand in line to pay my Electric/Telephone/House Tax/Income Tax/Train Ticket/Air Ticket/Bus Ticket/Children Admission-donations/Petrol Line/LP Gas Line/Restaurant Line/Chola Bhatura Line/Samosa Line/RTO Office line/Registration line/License Line/Stock Buy line/Stock Sell Line/Bank Deposit Line/Bank Draft Line/Fixed Deposit Line/Kisaan Vikas Patra Line/Registered/Speed post Line/Blue Dart Line/Company registration line/College admission line/College fee line/University degree line/Interview Line/Booking a Car line/Beer Whisky Line/Canteen Line.
Half the country stands in line, the other half manages the line. Neither has any civic sense.
b) I don't want to bribe babus who manage above lines to get ahead in line.
d) I don't want power failures/cooler failures/ac failures/broken roads/or other catastrophic system failures.
e) I dont want fake or mixed eating oil / flour / milk / cheese / butter / peppers / lentils / rice
f) I don't want dangerous chemical fertilizers in my produce (slow killers - massive kidney failure rate in India for past 10 years)
g) I don't want to teach my children dishonesty and tricks of survival/street smartness (in ref to corruption in India) which don't add any value to their personality.
h) The only reason I would wanna go back is for my immediate family and friends. Thats the only thing I miss when it comes to India.
I wouldn't go back and I believe even MK Gandhi himself would'nt leave from Africa for India in todays times.
Also Its the enemy within (corruption) which can cause great harm and we have that kind of enemy now. You can never ever change the attitudes which people carry in India without another revolution.
I am sure I can come up with a huge list of positives too, They will sound very good and will give me a great feeling of fake National Pride.
Now go ahead and kill me for saying all the above.!!
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smuggymba
01-25 02:52 PM
From the day I came to this country , I have spent around $12,000 on immigration including H1-Bs, filing GC, APs, EADs extra. Not to mention the traveling for visa stamps and whole other shit load of expenses. I guess most of people who paid for filing GC did spent same amount of money.
Hell ya, Some one got to be benefiting from my $12000.
I thought we're not supposed to pay for H1 and GC. Correct me if I'm wrong? I guess we can only pay for the visa appointment fee.
Hell ya, Some one got to be benefiting from my $12000.
I thought we're not supposed to pay for H1 and GC. Correct me if I'm wrong? I guess we can only pay for the visa appointment fee.
more...
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franklin
02-13 01:42 PM
immigration-law.com posted country wise EB visa allocation for the year of 2005. For example, Nepal used only 70 EB3 visas. Whereas country limit is 7%. In that case how EB3 Nepal is retrogressed?
Can we sue USCIS? Let's discuss.
In that case, let's hire an attorney.
There is no such thing as EB3 Nepal, which I'm sure you know. In EB3 ROW, this includes everyone else. I'm sure there are some significant numbers from the UK, Germany, Australian (although they might be separate under E3... not sure), Japan, Tawian.... etc etc the list goes on.
EB3 ROW doesn't just mean those from tiny countries with tiny populations
Can we sue USCIS? Let's discuss.
In that case, let's hire an attorney.
There is no such thing as EB3 Nepal, which I'm sure you know. In EB3 ROW, this includes everyone else. I'm sure there are some significant numbers from the UK, Germany, Australian (although they might be separate under E3... not sure), Japan, Tawian.... etc etc the list goes on.
EB3 ROW doesn't just mean those from tiny countries with tiny populations
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tikka
07-04 12:57 PM
http://digg.com/politics/U_S_Withdraws_Offer_of_60_000_Job_Based_Visas_Ange ring_Immigration_Lawyer/who
http://digg.com/politics/Rep_Lofgren_Issues_Statement_on_Updated_Visa_Bulle tin
http://digg.com/politics/USCIS_Visa_scandal
DIGG PLEASE
http://digg.com/politics/Rep_Lofgren_Issues_Statement_on_Updated_Visa_Bulle tin
http://digg.com/politics/USCIS_Visa_scandal
DIGG PLEASE
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kingkong
09-04 02:00 PM
I am from AP. And my father had first hand experience getting ripped off by this dead mans cronies when they threatened and grabbed my fathers small plot, that he had bought way back in 89, on the out-skirts of Hyd. All it took was one single threatening phone call to my father and my father signed the sale deed for the land the very next day, not asking a single penny in return. His family was more precious to him than the bloody piece of land. My father worked as a clerk in a central govt office. He is a simple man and has no clout.
I am sad that YSR is dead. I wish he survived but with 3rd degree burns and limped out his miserable life for the next 100 yrs.
I am from Kerala. not from AP.(studied in Bangalore and have friends from almost every state from India) I AM NOT A REDDY OR RAO.
Some of my friends are from Bihar (CHILDREN OF MP'S, MLA) go home for elections and lead booth capturing. They shared their experience with me.
CASTE POLITICS IS A THE RESON FOR ALL NEGATIVE COMMENTS.
IN KERALA, CASTE POLITICS IS EXISTS (just pick a candidate for a constituency), BUT NOT IN THE RANGE OF OTHER INDIAN STATES. (ESPECIALLY NORTH INDIA)
Let the people from AP, comment about him. If they give him second time, it is clear that majority like him. No doubt about it. If he is not good, why you people campaign against him by blogs for go to India and vote against him ???
I DIDN'T SUPPORT ANY POLITICIANS. But have a sympathy for a dead person and other 5 people in the accident.
This can happen to any one of us at any time. Do not rejoice in Tragedies.
I am sad that YSR is dead. I wish he survived but with 3rd degree burns and limped out his miserable life for the next 100 yrs.
I am from Kerala. not from AP.(studied in Bangalore and have friends from almost every state from India) I AM NOT A REDDY OR RAO.
Some of my friends are from Bihar (CHILDREN OF MP'S, MLA) go home for elections and lead booth capturing. They shared their experience with me.
CASTE POLITICS IS A THE RESON FOR ALL NEGATIVE COMMENTS.
IN KERALA, CASTE POLITICS IS EXISTS (just pick a candidate for a constituency), BUT NOT IN THE RANGE OF OTHER INDIAN STATES. (ESPECIALLY NORTH INDIA)
Let the people from AP, comment about him. If they give him second time, it is clear that majority like him. No doubt about it. If he is not good, why you people campaign against him by blogs for go to India and vote against him ???
I DIDN'T SUPPORT ANY POLITICIANS. But have a sympathy for a dead person and other 5 people in the accident.
This can happen to any one of us at any time. Do not rejoice in Tragedies.
gomirage
06-14 12:23 AM
so what are the ones that fall below on points supposed to do ? pack and leave after 10 plus years of being here ?
The point system would only apply to new applicants. All those already in line will proceed according to existing system. Worked well in Canada's system.
The point system would only apply to new applicants. All those already in line will proceed according to existing system. Worked well in Canada's system.
GCwaitforever
02-14 03:01 PM
Is there anybody in the 'YES' voters in Washinton DC (or near by) who could go and talk to Rajiv Khanna? If not, let us close this thread.
